[访谈]帕尼拉·奥古斯特：原力之母

August

（Pernilla August: Mother of the Force）

When we last saw Shmi Skywalker, she was standing outside in the hot desert sun, bidding a bittersweet farewell to her son, insisting that he leave her to live the free life she couldn't and fulfill his powerful destiny. We were left to wonder what would happen to Shmi, still a slave to a Toydarian and letting go of the connection to the one person she loved most, Anakin.
我们最后看见施密·天行者的时候,她正站在屋外炽热的沙漠阳光下，怀着悲喜交集的心情，向她的儿子道别，坚持说他必须离开她，去过她无法得到的自由生活，完成他强大的命运。这让我们想知道——仍然是Toydarian的奴隶的施密，在切断了与她最爱的人——阿纳金的联系后，会发生些什么。

It was one of the most heart-wrenching scenes in The Phantom Menace -- indeed, in all of the Star Wars films. To pull off the complex emotions needed for the important moment, director George Lucas and producer Rick McCallum turned to Pernilla August, one of the most celebrated actresses in her native Sweden, but then an unknown to most American audiences.
这是《幽灵的威胁》中——事实上，是所有《星战》电影中——最感人的场景之一。为了突现这一重要时刻中所需的复杂感情，导演乔治·卢卡斯和制片瑞克·麦可克伦求助于瑞典最著名的女演员之一，但对绝大多数美国观众而言则是个陌生人的帕尼拉·奥古斯特。

Now, with the release of Episode II rapidly approaching, August is famous in the U.S. not only for her memorable performance as Shmi but also for her starring role in the acclaimed and top-rated NBC production Mary, Mother of Jesus -- another example of August's status as the preeminent maternal figure onscreen, and her ability to master the nuances of a mother torn between the love of her son and the wisdom of knowing his path goes far beyond that love.
现在，随着EP2公映日的迅速临近，奥古斯特在美国变得十分出名，这不仅仅是因为她令人难忘地扮演了施密，而且也因为她在大受好评的NBC大制作作品《圣母玛利亚》中担任了主演——这是奥古斯特卓越的银幕母亲形象的另一个范例，她扮演了一个在儿子的爱和心知他的道路远远超出这份爱的智慧之间挣扎的母亲，她表现出了对这种细微差别的把握能力。

Naturally, August's work in the latest Star Wars prequel is just as emotional as audiences have become accustomed to expect from her, if not more so. But the actress, a real-life mother of three whose career has been shaped by her experience in films and plays directed by the acclaimed Swedish auteur Ingmar Bergman, tells the Insider that intense material is part of the territory for her.
自然地，奥古斯特在最新一部《星战》前传中的表演，如果不是更加激动人心，也正如观众们对她所期望的一样动人。但这位女演员，真实生活中三个孩子的母亲的事业，是在著名瑞典导演英格玛·伯格曼导演的电影和戏剧中积累的经验上逐渐建立起来的。她告诉《知情者》杂志，强烈的情感正是她知识范畴的一部分。

"There are big emotions in Episode II," she says, "but I'm not afraid of that. Those big emotions are so close to me, in a way. I've been working with Ingmar Bergman so much, I'm used to it!"
“在EP2中有强烈的情感，”她说，“但我并不害怕。在某种程度上，这种强烈的情感如此接近我。我曾经与英格玛·伯格曼合作过多次，我习惯于如此！”

More difficult than summoning up those feelings, August says, was coming up with them so quickly when she got to the Sydney, Australia, set of Episode II last summer and started shooting shortly after reading the script. "It's always challenging," she says. "When you have just a few days and have to jump into big emotions, that's quite tricky, because you have nothing to go from. This was really jumping into it -- and right out."
奥古斯特说，与唤起那些感觉相比较，更困难的在于当她去年夏天到达EP2位于澳大利亚悉尼的摄影棚时，必须立即调动感情，并且在读完剧本后不久就开始拍摄。“这永远具有挑战性，”她说，“当你只有短短几天就必须投入到那种强烈的情感中去，这相当困难，因为你没有任何情感来源。这真的是直来直去（？）。”

She also had to adjust to another element -- or, as she puts it, "I had a new son!"
她也不得不适应另一件事——或者，正如她所说的那样，“我有了一个新的儿子！”

While August spent much of Episode I worrying over a young Jake Lloyd, then 8, this time Anakin was played by then-19-year-old Hayden Christensen. "He was so sweet, and very good," August says of the new Anakin. "He has the same warmth and kindness as Jake."
奥古斯特在EP1中为当时年仅8岁的小杰克·洛伊德担尽了心，这一回阿纳金由现年19岁的海登·克里斯腾森扮演。“他是如此可爱，而且非常出色，”奥古斯特谈起新的阿纳金，“他拥有和杰克一样的热忱和善良品质。”

Still, August says that while her time in Sydney was brief, she was far more relaxed than she was shooting The Phantom Menace, since Episode II was her second Star Wars film. "I wasn't so nervous -- I knew all the people around," she recalls. "It's such a professional crew and they take care of you -- it's so calm and nice. I love to be a part of this. I really enjoy working with George Lucas so much, and also Rick McCallum. They've been so sweet to me. They are friends for life."
古斯特说她虽然在悉尼逗留的时间不长，她仍然比在拍摄《幽灵的威胁》时更放松，因为EP2是她的第二部《星战》电影。“我没有那么紧张了——我认识周围的所有人，”她回忆说，“这是个极为专业的团体，他们很照顾你——非常的平静祥和。我很高兴能成为其中一员。与乔治·卢卡斯的合作真的很愉快，当然还有瑞克·麦克凯伦。他们对我都那么好。他们是生命中的朋友。”

The comfortable feeling for Episode II was a marked contrast to August's trepidation at taking the role in Episode I -- and acting, for the first time, in English, not her native tongue. She had worked with McCallum before, on two episodes of Lucasfilm's Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, and the prolific producer remembered her when the time came to cast Shmi.
与奥古斯特初次得到EP1中的角色时的紧张相比，拍摄EP2时的舒适感觉是一个显著的差别——而第一次用英语而不是她的母语表演，也是紧张的因素之一。她以前曾在卢卡斯影业的两部《少年印第安纳·琼斯》系列剧中和麦可凯伦合作过，当需要为施密物色人选时，这位多产的制片人想到了她。

"I was very happy to get the part, but it was the first thing I did in English -- Young Indiana Jones was in Italian and German," she says. "I never spoke English in that. So I was a little nervous."
“我很高兴能得到这个角色，但这是我第一次用英语表演——《少年印第安纳·琼斯》里是意大利语和德语，”她说，“在片中我从未说过英语。所以我有一点紧张。”

She raised the bar even higher when she was cast in the title role of Mary, Mother of Jesus opposite Christian Bale as Jesus. "It was really a challenge for me to have such a big part and do it in a foreign language," she says. "What I've been doing in Star Wars is small, but to have a big part like this, it was like school."
当她在《圣母玛利亚》一片中扮演玛利亚时，她甚至把这种障碍看得更高，片中克里斯蒂安·贝尔扮演耶稣基督。“对我来说用外语扮演这样一个大角色确实是一个挑战，”她说，“我在《星球大战》中作的微不足道，但扮演这样一个大角色，就好象是学校锻炼。”

August laughs at comparisons between the roles of Mary and Shmi. "I don't know if I thought it was ironic," she says, "but what is quite funny is that this is my part -- they will never give me something else!" Doing her best imitation of a movie producer looking for someone to play a virgin mother, August adds, "'Get me that Swedish actress!'"
奥古斯特因为玛利亚和施密两个角色间的相似之处而大笑不已。“我不知道这是不是讽刺，”她说，“不过我的角色确实很有趣——他们再不会给我别的角色了！”接着，奥古斯特惟妙惟肖地模仿了正在寻找一个能扮演处女母亲角色人选的电影制片人，“‘给我找那个瑞典女演员来！’”

But August says she was honored to be cast as Mary. "I'm very happy about it," she says. "I enjoyed it very much, and I loved working with Christian Bale."
但奥古斯特说，能扮演玛丽是她的荣幸。“我对此感到非常高兴，”她说，“我非常享受这一切，我喜欢和克里斯蒂安·贝尔的合作。”

Yet just because she loved playing the part doesn't mean August has actually seen the finished product. "I have to be honest," she admits. "They've sent me a tape and I haven't seen it. It's just ridiculous. But sometimes, I am like that. The most important thing to me is the work."
虽然仅仅因为她热爱扮演这个角色，但并不意味着奥古斯特真的看过了完成的影片。“我必须老实说，”她承认道，“他们给我寄来了一卷录影带，但我还没有看过。因为这太可笑了。不过有时候，我喜欢这样。对我而言，最重要的事情是工作本身。”

The work began early for August, who started in a children's theater when she was 10 and discovered she loved acting. "I remember the moment when I was alone on the stage," she says, "and there was something happening between me and the audience -- and I remember the feeling, because it's exactly the same feeling I have now when I stand on the stage and feel this is something very special that happens right now. It's something with the audience that you do together.
奥古斯特的表演生涯开始得很早，当她10岁在一个儿童剧院开始表演时，她发现自己热爱表演。“我记得自己独自站在舞台上时的那一刻，”她说，“在我和观众之间有一些事开始发生了——我记得那种感觉，因为这种感觉和现在我站在舞台上时感到的那种感觉完全一样，那是一种立时就产生的非常特殊的感觉，是你和观众共同产生的一种感觉。”

"I remember that experience," she continues, "and it was like I locked it into my heart, because I was very shy when I was a kid and I never talked about being an actress. I wasn't a kid who said, 'I want to be an actress.' It was more a secret for me, that I had to try this one day."
“我记得这种体验，”她接着说，“就好象我把它锁进了我的心里，因为当我还是个孩子时我就非常害羞，而我从未谈论过要当一个演员。我不是那种会说‘我想当一个演员’的孩子，对我而言这更接近于一个秘密，一个我有朝一日必须尝试的秘密。”

It didn't take long for August to return to acting. "I had the opportunity to have a small part in a movie [Giliap] when I was 16," she recalls. "The director was Roy Andersson, a Swedish director who's very good, and I think that was when it got into my blood. Then I knew I had to try this again."
奥古斯特重回表演舞台并没有相隔太长时间。“16岁时我得到机会，在影片Giliap中扮演一个小角色，”她回忆说，“导演是罗伊·安德森，一个非常出色的瑞典导演，我认为这一刻刻骨铭心。于是我认识到我必须再次尝试表演。”

Inspired by American actresses Gena Rowlands and Meryl Streep, August, now 43, entered drama school in Stockholm at age 19 and soon landed roles in movies by Swedish directors Lasse Hallström (who put Pernilla in Tuppen in 1981 and has since gained fame in the U.S. for Best Picture nominees The Cider House Rules and Chocolat) and the legendary Ingmar Bergman, who cast her in a pivotal role in his final film masterwork Fanny & Alexander when she was 21. She now calls that film "the most important thing I did" in her career.
受美国女演员吉纳·罗兰斯和梅里尔·斯特里普的启发，现年43岁的奥古斯特在19岁时进入斯德哥尔摩的戏剧学院学习，很快就在瑞典导演Lasse Hallström的影片中得到了角色（这位导演在1981年的影片Tuppen起用了帕尼拉，此后因为获最佳影片奖提名的影片《苹果酒屋的法则》和《浓情巧克力》，在美国赢得声望），随后，传奇导演英格玛·伯格曼让她在自己的最后一部作品《芬尼与亚历山大》中出任重要角色，当年她21岁。现在，帕尼拉将这部影片称为自己职业生涯中“所做过的最重要的一件事”。

Yet despite the increased exposure from Fanny & Alexander, August still concentrated on the stage following her graduation from drama school. "When I finished drama school, I went straight to the theater and worked in theater for almost 10 years," she says. "Then I started to do more movies. But theater is my base. That's where I come from."
虽然《芬尼与亚历山大》增加了奥古斯特的知名度，但她在从戏剧学院毕业后，仍然主要在舞台上出现。“我从戏剧学院毕业后，就直接进入剧院，在那里工作了将近10年，”她说，“然后我开始接拍了更多电影。但剧院是我的基础。我是从那里来的。”

In fact, August notes that the limited nature of Swedish film production makes theater a must anyway. "In Sweden, it's impossible to just work with films," she says. "No actors can do that -- you can't live on films in Sweden. It's not like in America, where you can just be a film actress."
事实上，奥古斯特补充说，瑞典电影环境的局限性使得剧院成为一条必须的途径。“在瑞典，你不可能只做拍电影一份工作，”她说，“没有演员能那样做——在瑞典电影无法让你谋生。不象在美国，在那里你可以只做一名电影演员。”

So after leaving drama school in 1982, she moved to the small Swedish town of Gävle, where she joined a theater ensemble led by director Peter Oskarson and starred in such plays as Strindberg's The Dreamplay and Chekov's Three Sisters. Four years later, she moved back to Stockholm to join the Royal Dramatic Theater, where Ingmar Bergman had gone to devote himself to directing plays after a long career as a filmmaker. There, August starred as Ophelia in Hamlet and Nora in A Doll's House, among other performances.
因此在1982年离开戏剧学院后,奥古斯特搬到了瑞典小镇Gävle，在那里她加入了一个由导演Peter Oskarson领导的剧院，并且在诸如Strindberg的The Dreamplay以及Chekov的《三姐妹》中担任主演。四年后，她又回到斯德哥尔摩，加入了皇家大剧院，在那里，英格玛伯格曼在长期从事电影摄制者的工作后，开始投身于执导戏剧。奥古斯特在这里主演了《哈姆雷特》中的奥菲莉娅，《玩偶之家》中的挪拉等剧目。

She also starred in roles created specifically for her in two movies Bergman wrote but passed off to other directors. First was 1992's Best Intentions, for which August won the prestigious Best Actress award at the 1993 Cannes Film Festival. The movie, directed by August's former husband Bille August, also won the Golden Palm at Cannes. Bergman followed that by casting August in his screenplay Private Confessions (1996), directed by Liv Ullmann. The role he wrote for August in Private Confessions was based on Bergman's mother.
她也在两部由伯格曼编剧、由他人导演的电影中出演了专为她创作的角色。第一部是1992年的《最好的意图》，奥古斯特凭此片获得了1993年戛纳电影节最佳女主角奖，该片也获得了金棕榈奖。接下来伯格曼起用奥古斯特在他担任编剧的《私人供认》（1996年）中出任角色，该片的导演是Liv Ullmann。这个他专为奥古斯特创作的角色的蓝本，是伯格曼的母亲。

August also recently starred in the Swedish film Gossip and the Danish film Anna. But after five years making movies--and a prolonged absence from the stage--the actress has been back at the Royal Dramatic Theater, starring for Bergman in the Friedrich Schiller play Mary Stuart.
最近，奥古斯特也在瑞典影片《闲话》和丹麦影片《安娜》中担任主演。但在从事电影工作五年后——也就是离开舞台五年后——这名女演员回到皇家大剧院，为伯格曼在Friedrich Schiller的戏剧《玛丽·斯图亚特》中担任主演。

"I went from Australia in August straight into rehearsals for this," she says. "We had the opening in December, and we're going to play it until the end of May. Then, hopefully, we're coming to New York next summer. We used to go there with all the Bergman plays, and I think we will this time, too. It's important to go back to the theater and go back to my roots. I felt that now, because it was five years since I did a play, that it was very good for my acting to go back and figure out what it's all about, from the beginning."
“我在8月到澳大利亚，直接为这出戏进行排演，”她说，“我们在12月首演，将一直演到五月底。然后，我们很有希望在明年夏天到纽约。我们以前常常把所有的伯格曼戏剧都带到那里去，我想这一次我们也会这样做。重回剧院，重回我的根本是很重要的。现在我感觉到了这一点，因为这是我相隔五年排的戏，回到这里并从开始领会到这之中的一切，对我的表演很有好处。”

Still, August says that doesn't mean that she thinks live performing is somehow more important than her film work. "They feed each other, in a way," she says. "Every time I work in theater, I'm longing to do the movies, and when I work in films, I'm longing to do theater. Because you work in a different way when you do movies. You have to do it much smaller, and that can be good for the theater, too -- to be able to control your expressions."
尽管如此，奥古斯特仍然说，这并不意味着她认为戏剧表演就比她的电影工作更重要。“在某种程度上，它们相互依靠，”她说，“每一次我在剧院中演出，我都渴望着去拍电影，而当我在拍电影时，我又渴望着重回舞台。因为当你拍电影时你做的是不同形式的工作。你必须在这里作得收敛一些，这对舞台表演也有好处——能够控制你的表达方式。”

There's also a world of difference, she says, between the usual movies she does in Sweden and a big-budget production like Star Wars. "The big difference is that the crew here is so small, and the shooting is not going on in three different stages -- perhaps one, if there is a studio," she laughs. "And normally we work with just one camera, and that's a big difference because you always work with many cameras when you do Star Wars."
她说，在瑞典出演的那些常规影片和一部象《星球大战》这样的大成本影片之间，也是一个不同的世界。“最大的不同是这里的工作人员这么少，而拍摄也不是在三个不同的舞台上进行——如果有一个摄影棚的话，也许就一个舞台，”她大笑道，“通常我们只用一台摄象机拍摄，之所以有如此大的不同，就在于，当你在拍摄《星球大战》时，你总是与三台摄影机同时一起工作。”

But August says that at its core, acting for Star Wars is no different from acting in any other film. "When it comes to the process, and to work with the camera, and to work with your acting, it's the same. It is, of course, in a different language, but acting is the same." That's an ethic the actress brings to all her work, and August remains committed to looking forward and not dwelling on past projects, no matter how popular, even Star Wars. "I'm 43, I have my three kids, and my base is Sweden and the theater," she says. "If I wanted to, I could go to every convention, like an ambassador. But I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in going on with my work -- going on with my theater work and doing new projects."
但奥古斯特说，关键在于，为《星球大战》工作与在其他电影中演出没有什么不同。“当开始工作时，与镜头一起工作，用你的表演进行工作，都是一样的。当然，用的语言不同，但表演是一样的。”这是这名女演员带到她所有工作中的一个规范，无论有多受欢迎，哪怕是《星球大战》，奥古斯特仍然向前看着，而不是沉湎于过去，。“我43岁，有三个孩子，我的根基在瑞典，在舞台，”她说，“如果我愿意，我可以去任何国家，就象一名大使。但我对这个不感兴趣。我感兴趣的是我的工作——继续我的舞台剧事业，出演新的影片。”

That doesn't mean that August doesn't relish her role in the Star Wars universe and all the crazy stuff that goes with it, like sitting in a chair at Fox Studios Australia while a laser circled around her, scanning her entire body (in costume) for a possible action figure -- "You had to laugh at it -- it was weird, but fun," she says. Or like receiving "quite a lot" of fan mail, although she admits, "I'm afraid I'm quite bad at answering it. I do my best -- two or three times a year I go through all there is, and I send them back. Well, if they send stamped envelopes, I send them back -- otherwise it would cost me too much!" More than anything, though, August said she enjoyed her actual time, however fleeting, on the Star Wars sets, and still remembers her initial joy at having been cast, unexpectedly, as the matriarch of the Skywalker clan -- mother to Anakin, grandmother to Luke and Leia -- in The Phantom Menace. "Was I surprised? You bet -- I was screaming," she remembers. "It was fantastic!"
但这并不意味着奥古斯特不欣赏她在《星球大战》宇宙中的角色，以及所有那些随之而来的疯狂的事，比如坐在澳大利亚福克斯摄影棚中，身边围着一道雷射光环，扫描她的全身（穿着衣服），为可能的玩偶制作作准备——“你没法不笑——这很古怪，可也很有趣。”她说。又或者比如收到“如此之多的”影迷信件，虽然她承认，“我怕我回信相当糟。我尽量——所有来信我每年回两到三次。嗯，如果他们寄来贴邮票的信封，我就把它们寄回去——否则这会让我花上一大笔钱了！”但是，更重要的，无论如何短暂，奥古斯特说她很享受自己目前的生活，在《星球大战》剧组，她仍然记得她入选后最初的快乐，在《幽灵的威胁》中出乎意料地成为天行者家族的女家长——阿纳金的母亲，卢克和莱娅的祖母。“我是不是很惊讶？你打赌吧——我在尖叫，”她回忆说，“太奇妙了！”

Recalling the production of Episode I, she says, "It was really wonderful just to be a part of it. I really enjoyed working with Liam Neeson very much, and of course I remember the desert scenes, because it was so hot. The thing I remember most was when we were out in the desert at three or four o'clock in the morning, and the sun would rise. It was so beautiful. I will never forget it."
回忆起EP1的拍摄，她说：“仅仅成为这之中的一份子就真的十分美妙。与利亚姆·尼森一起工作真的令我十分开心，我当然记得那些沙漠镜头，因为那里实在太热了。我记得最清楚的一件事是，我们在清晨三、四点钟来到沙漠，看着太阳升起，那实在是太美了。我永远都忘不掉。”

But while her experiences shooting Episodes I and II of the Star Wars saga were unforgettable, August says it hardly seems real anymore. Did she really go to Tunisia, London, and Sydney … or to a galaxy far, far away? Or was it all just a dream?
虽然她在拍摄《星战》传奇的EP1和EP2时的经历永生难忘，但奥古斯特说这看起来太不真实了。她真的到过突尼斯、伦敦、悉尼……，或者说，到过一个遥远遥远的银河系吗？或者这一切只是一个梦？

"People ask me, 'How is it in Hollywood?' And I say, 'It's not Hollywood -- it's something else,'" she explains. "To be a part of Star Wars is like a dream. For me, it really does feel like a dream, because it's something I visit and then I go back to my normal life. It is like a candy I have in my pocket, and I can put it in my mouth and just dream about it whenever I want."
“人们问我，‘在好莱坞感觉如何？’我说，‘这不是好莱坞——这是别的什么地方，’”她解释说，“成为《星球大战》的一员就好象一个梦。对我来说，这感觉的确就象一个梦，因为我参观完后又回到了我的日常生活。就好象我口袋里的一粒糖，我可以把它放进嘴里，想什么时候梦到它，就什么时候梦到它。”

And if we want to find out before May of 2002 what's been going on with Shmi Skywalker since her son left Tatooine, well, like Pernilla August, we're just going to have to keep on dreaming.
而如果我们想在2002年5月前就知道，在她的儿子离开塔图因后，施密·天行者发生了些什么事，哦，正如帕尼拉·奥古斯特那样，我们只有继续梦想了。

作者：斯科特·车诺夫（Scott Chernoff）

原文网址：www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feature/20020220/index.html